Curse

Faer · Nov 23, 2008, 09:48 PM // 21:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

5. Depending on how comfortable you are with only one "healer" and what the mob composition is, I'd give the last slot to:

5a. If another "healer" is needed... a E.Renewal PS/SB/Infuse/Shield Guardian/GDW build (or its weaker hero equivalent).

5b. If casters are a problem beyond what the AP-MoP necro can handle with Technobabble... a broadhead/volley ranger.

5c. If neither of those are concerns... a MS-DB sin.

While the rest of your post was okay enough that I don't feel the desire to go over it right now (and actually you inadvertently caught one of my blunders: I left out the bar variations for the bitch bars, and only posted the Hero variants, which is why there is a complete lack of GDW here. I will get around to fixing that problem tomorrow, or so, when I can think entirely straight again), I'm going to directly dispute this bit here.

5a. The only time you should need another healer is for DoA (or 12 man elite missions, but those are clearly the exception to various rules). I have run the Solo AP Boon in every other PvE location with great success. If another healer is needed, the AP Booner is probably doing it wrong. Practice makes perfect though!

5b. Casters are useless when they are either knocklocked or dead in a few seconds. Extending their cast time is nice and all, but generally entirely unnecessary. I personally consider dropping sheer killing power for unnecessary utility a negative change. However, adaptation of the builds to individual needs or play styles is part of the GW process, so everyone is entirely free to bring whatever they want. So on that note, I will also slip some variation stuff into there when I can do so properly.

5c. Well... Yeah. MSDB or a Dwayna usually got it with us, and still does with my own various groups. More melee is cool. :3

Quote:

Originally Posted by snaek

ur version/variation of the widely known builds r mediocre at best

Your version of English is horrendous at best. Your comments will be processed when you submit them in a manner worth reading.

The Meth · Nov 23, 2008, 10:38 PM // 22:38

You have a build that can beat PvE. Congrats. Where would you like your cake delivered to?

In all seriousness, the build is good, but I see no real innovation that you guys mention. Lots of physicals pounding away at enemies while under SY, buffed by casters who stack imbalanced stuff on them? Yeah, I've never run a build like that before. I can nitpick over individual skills but they don't matter too much. As an overall template the build is solid. Personally I would find it fun to put shadowsteps on your physicals, put enraging charge on your warrior, then have them all shadow step in on the same monster. Since this puts you right ontop of each other you automatically draw enemies in for the earthshaker knocklock and splinter rapeage. Since enraging charge instantly fuels your SY you won't be in any danger from being outside cast range for a few seconds, and its quite fun. I don't usually get to run fun builds though due to a lack of friends who play anymore.

btw, if u r pro u run sups, not minrs u nub.

-Lotus- · Nov 23, 2008, 10:52 PM // 22:52

-all the builds are pretty good, most could use a few skill treaks, but mostly preference/playstyle things.

-The DS warrior doesnt really serve a function other than pure damage. you should already have knock-lock from the ES warr and SY from the imbagon. If this character is only for damage you should have somehting that does more damage as the core like a MS/DM, scythesin or WS Derv.

- [Rush] > [Sprint]

-no thanks on the AP monk. it takes a superhuman targeting ability to keep your team up and pick targets that are about to drop.

- 4 PvE skills on the imbagon...

-the lead on the MS/DB will make you wait 10 seconds uselessly every time the rest of your team does their job.

-blessed light = lol

snaek · Nov 23, 2008, 11:06 PM // 23:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by -lotus-

4 PvE skills on the imbagon...

lol

oh i see how its innovative now
it does things that u cant even possibly do in gw

call me all u want on my bad english
its jus as tru as me callin u on ur mediocre build

and i didnt even call ur build bad
i jus said its using builds that have been widely known for months now
and the variation of skills on some of them arent that great

i mean
killing ur dps for an unreliable interupt
wuts the point
if u need an interrupt on the sin that badly
bring disrupting dagger or sumptin

but at least im not the one who called anyone a retard now did i
and im sowrie if my first post came across as offensive

really if the majority of the ppl have never seen these builds before
then thank you for spreading some gw knowledge
i was jus under the impression that these were already fairly well-known

-Lotus- · Nov 23, 2008, 11:11 PM // 23:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faer

Your version of English is horrendous at best. Your comments will be processed when you submit them in a manner worth reading.

and you are an asshole at best. the builds are not innovative, they are mediocre 'variations'(some of them) of popular builds.

He didn't say they were bad you really have no reason to attack how lazy he may be with his typing.

Bobby2 · Nov 23, 2008, 11:51 PM // 23:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faer

5b. Casters are useless when they are either knocklocked or dead in a few seconds. Extending their cast time is nice and all, but generally entirely unnecessary. I personally consider dropping sheer killing power for unnecessary utility a negative change. However, adaptation of the builds to individual needs or play styles is part of the GW process, so everyone is entirely free to bring whatever they want. So on that note, I will also slip some variation stuff into there when I can do so properly.

This directly contradicts your choice of [disrupting stab] over more common leads such as [golden fox strike]/[black mantis thrust].

fenix · Nov 24, 2008, 01:14 AM // 01:14

-Lotus- and snaek, you're both clearly horrible at GW. Probably best if you don't post here again.

The point of this thread was to show bad players how NOT to be bad. If you're already winning GW, why are you reading this thread?

RE: The sin bar;

Here's a tip. Interrupts are fast. I use Dstab > Exhausting because it's so much faster than other skills. Why would you want any damage as your leads, when you can use fast attacks and spam MS/DB better?

Plus, a sin is only something you'd bring if you can't bring a Warrior.

As for the builds;

- ES needs Yeti Smash. Armor ignoring damage, yespls.
- Bringing Steelfang over YMLAD would result in more free Adren!
- Ele makes my panties wet :3

As for the rest, lol, it's perfect. If you think otherwise, you're bad at the game. And yes, Frenzy/Sprint is far better than whatever shitty skills you would 'prefer' to bring (Flail/Rush, lol waste of adren for NO reason). You have SAVE YOURSELVES and you're a WARRIOR. THAT MEANS YOU CAN HAVE 100 BASE ARMOR, PLUS 100 FROM SY. Why the hell WOULDN'T you bring Frenzy?

Nice work Faer, hopefully a lot of bad players see the light after reading this, and stop running terrible bars.

Oh and as a final note;

Minion bombers aren't better than anything in this build. If you think so, gtfo.

Lyynyyrd · Nov 24, 2008, 01:29 AM // 01:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by sgtclarity

you should consider the use of a shattering assault assassin, it would greatly improve the damage this build can achieve.

Simultaneously the use of a pd mesmer could have beneficial results in shutting down enemy spellcasters.

pd mesmer in hm pve?

Lol.

Chthon · Nov 24, 2008, 04:09 AM // 04:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faer

[FONT="Book Antiqua"]
5a. The only time you should need another healer is for DoA (or 12 man elite missions, but those are clearly the exception to various rules). I have run the Solo AP Boon in every other PvE location with great success. If another healer is needed, the AP Booner is probably doing it wrong. Practice makes perfect though!

While I may tend to agree, this is supposed to be a thread for "how to be less bad," isn't it? Like I said **IF** you need another "healer," use one of those.

Quote:

5b. Casters are useless when they are either knocklocked or dead in a few seconds.

In general, I rely on BHA for situations where I fear getting insta-pwned by massive AoE before SY! even has a chance to go up, and the warriors have yet to close the gap to melee range. BHA can buy the time to get SY! going. After that, switch to volley+something from the buff-bitch for DPS. (Guess BHA is also useful for when things start to go pear shaped and blind/block/whatever is keeping the physicals from KD-ing a key caster.

JoeKnowMo · Nov 24, 2008, 05:30 AM // 05:30

While some ooh and aah and others say this is all old hat, the truth is somewhere in between. The Racway builds are pretty well known, in the guru universe at least. However, a full team build with various options is new, as far as I know... although, I admittedly haven't read all the 450+ posts in the Racway thread.

The AP monk, for one, looks like fun.

I'd move "Finish Him" off the imbagon to someone else and squeak some points into Command for "Go For the Eyes!" and get rid of the CS Gon unless you need a perpetual TNTF.

An AP-MoP Necro would probably make things go boom much faster as Chthon pointed out already.

Even if there's not a ton of new info for veterans, this thread shines light on a much more entertaining team build than lol Cryway and brought some serious lulz.

Quote:

Originally Posted by fenix

If you're already winning GW, why are you reading this thread?

And the award for best irony goes to...

-Lotus- · Nov 24, 2008, 05:48 AM // 05:48

[QUOTE=fenix;4368193]a sin is only something you'd bring if you can't bring a Warrior.[QUOTE]uhm... why? MS/DB has more damage output than Dslash

by the way, your whole "agree with me or you're retarded" philosophy really only works when you're right.

when you say things like:

Quote:

Frenzy/Sprint is far better ... Rush, lol waste of adren for NO reason)

you just make yourself look really stupid.

fenix · Nov 24, 2008, 06:20 AM // 06:20

[QUOTE=-Lotus-;4368435][QUOTE=fenix;4368193]a sin is only something you'd bring if you can't bring a Warrior.

Quote:

uhm... why? MS/DB has more damage output than Dslash

by the way, your whole "agree with me or you're retarded" philosophy really only works when you're right.

when you say things like: you just make yourself look really stupid.

This isn't PvP. Frenzy/Sprint is better in PvE than Flail/Rush. You're terrible. MS/DB ONLY DOES MS/DB. Dslash can do 10000 different things.

-Lotus- · Nov 24, 2008, 07:19 AM // 07:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by fenix

This isn't PvP. Frenzy/Sprint is better in PvE than Flail/Rush. You're terrible. MS/DB ONLY DOES MS/DB. Dslash can do 10000 different things.

no, its not. I didn't say flail/rush, I was talking about frenzy/rush, it relies on adrenaline with no recharge time which means it is a more reliable cancel stance than an energy-based one with a recharge.

MS/DB only does damage, correct.
Dslash does compettitive damage, maintains SY pretty well and can knocklock. correct.

you failed to notice however that the build already has a ES warrior and an imbagon, which means that the SY and KDs from the Dslash warrior are going to be useless. this means that the character's sole purpose is damage output. If you are looking for pure melee physical damage output MS/DB outshines Dslash.

If you could use SY and knock lock, then Dslash would be the better choice, however, this is not the case.

MisterB · Nov 24, 2008, 07:36 AM // 07:36

Imbagon bar is impossible. Four PvE skills.

fenix · Nov 24, 2008, 07:38 AM // 07:38

Frenzy doesn't NEED a cover stance in PvE, so Sprint is good for a speed buff when you need one, as opposed to having to charge Rush first.

For pure melee physical damage; Dslash/Standing Slash/Sun and Moon + Conjure + Strength and Honor says hi.

Faer · Nov 24, 2008, 09:55 AM // 09:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by -Lotus-

- 4 PvE skills on the imbagon...

loloops

Quote:

Originally Posted by snaek

i was jus under the impression that these were already fairly well-known

I was under the impression that Guru is an English forum.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeKnowMo

I'd move "Finish Him" off the imbagon to someone else and squeak some points into Command for "Go For the Eyes!"

I'd move FH off the Gon too. But that's because I was sleeptyping and gave him 4 PvE skills. loloops. As for adding GftE, an energy based skill is a better choice.

Bobby2 · Nov 24, 2008, 01:59 PM // 13:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by fenix

RE: The sin bar;

Here's a tip. Interrupts are fast. I use Dstab > Exhausting because it's so much faster than other skills. Why would you want any damage as your leads, when you can use fast attacks and spam MS/DB better?

kcool, fair point. I've myself adopted such an approach for a time
(read [leaping mantis sting][exhausting assault][moebius strike][death blossom])... back before [asuran scan] was buffed I considered LMS leet utility

point being getting more Blossoms in ofc

But Faer posted em deliberately with [golden fang strike], which certainly implies their purpose is killing stuff dead asap

-----
EDIT: olook Faer managed to ninja edit? [disrupting dagger]... I just don't think it's worth it with [you move like a dwarf!] already on your bar, still +1 for [asuran scan]
EDIT2: +over9K for [asuran scan], I'd hardly consider +75% damage optional tbfh
-----

Quote:

Originally Posted by fenix

Plus, a sin is only something you'd bring if you can't bring a Warrior.

Stab through the heart, QQ.

Quote:

Originally Posted by fenix

This isn't PvP. Frenzy/Sprint is better in PvE than Flail/Rush. You're terrible. MS/DB ONLY DOES MS/DB. Dslash can do 10000 different things.

I'm going to have to ask for a list, all 10K of em plz

j/k, off-topic much... but easy on the exaggerations